How do you make sense of podcast listener numbers? Does Joe Rogan really have 100,000,000 listeners? Spotify seems to think so.
Here’s the story behind the story.
Where Does a Podcast File Live?
To understand why the numbers are so “squishy,” you need to understand a little of the technology behind podcasts.
The actual audio file that people listen to – on their phone, tablet or computer – is initially stored on a podcast host.
I produce and host several different shows. I host them all at a website called BuzzSprout.
(There are lots of other podcast hosts in the world. For the purposes of this paper though, when I say BuzzSprout, you just substitute whichever podcast host you prefer.)
When I publish a new podcast episode, I upload it to BuzzSprout. Then BuzzSprout makes it available to the world for listening.
People can listen to that audio file in 4 different ways.
- Direct Link: People can link directly to the file located on BuzzSprout using a BuzzSprout They can then listen to it online.
- Direct Download: Listeners can download the file from BuzzSprout and listen to it offline.
- Syndication: Listeners can stream it or download it through one of our syndicators
- Embedding: Listeners can stream it or download it through embedded websites
This is what makes counting actual listeners challenging.
Let’s take these one by one.
Direct Link
This is pretty much the same method you use to count visitors to a web site.
When listeners access an episode through a direct link, then BuzzSprout can get an exact count.
Direct Download
Here is where accurate counts start to get difficult.
Although BuzzSprout can count the number of downloads, they cannot count the number of people who listen to that download.
Therefore, they guess.
And the podcast industry’s best-guess is that each download generates more than one listener.
How many more?
It is something multiple of every download. I won’t go into their reasoning. Just take it as a given that this multiple goes into calculating “Total Listeners.”
Syndication
Syndication is where accurate counts get really difficult.
I syndicate all my shows across all the major syndication platforms including Apple, Spotify, Google, Alexa, I Heart Radio and Stitcher.
(There’s more, but those are the biggest.)
This is where it gets really weird.
Each of those syndicators accesses our audio file from their own IP address. Therefore, everytime someone access a podcast through one of these syndicators, it’s coming from the same IP address.
It’s impossible for BuzzSprout to count actual listens this way, because every single listener looks like the same address.
As far as BuzzSprout can tell, there is literally no difference between one listener from Apple and one million listeners from Apple.
So again, we have to trust the industry’s best guess. And they guess a 10:1 ratio.
Is it ACTUALLY 10:1? There is no way to know.
But these multiples are truly educated guesses. They are calculated across thousands of different podcasts across various languages, countries, age ranges, and cultures.
In other words, it’s a pretty good “best guess.”
Embedding
When you go to my website and look at the podcasts page, you are seeing embedded links that point back to BuzzSprout.
Embedding makes it look like the episodes are actually on JackHeald.com. Listeners can stream or download the podcast files through that embedded link.
Embedding offers the same advantages and disadvantages that we have with syndicators.
Every time a file is accessed from an embedded site, it comes from the same IP address, so it looks like the same event to BuzzSprout. Whether we have 10,000 people listen through our website, or just 1 – it all looks the same to BuzzSprout.
Summary
A podcast host’s analytics tell us precisely what they are able to count. It’s just that it’s impossible to count all possible listens. So, they make educated guesses based on industry standards. Those are the analytics from the various syndicators.
So, it’s entirely possible that Joe Rogan gets 100,000,000 listeners a week.
Or not.